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Sitting throughout from revered barrister Andrew Kostopoulos, greater than 30 years after his admission to the bar, it is apparent how a lot his experiences of racism nonetheless affect him.
“I am placing to you stunning factors that I’ve skilled personally that I can not get out of my head,” he says over espresso at a North Sydney cafe.
Over the course of an hour, recollections tumble out of him; there’s a visual launch of rigidity, confusion and ache, which has been suppressed over three many years of working life.
In each facet, Kostopoulos is the image of a profitable barrister: His profession consists of representing high-profile purchasers such because the NSW Police, appearances at varied royal commissions and the Unbiased Fee In opposition to Corruption (ICAC) in NSW.
Andrew Kostopoulos (left) leaves the ICAC listening to into Australian Water Holdings together with his consumer Rod De Aboitiz in 2014. Supply: AAP / Dean Lewins
However as he nears retirement, he’s ruminating on the recommendation his father gave him when he was 27 years outdated, simply earlier than he was admitted to the bar in 1989.
“He had tears in his eyes. He stated to me: ‘I am very pleased with you however I would like you to alter your title, and that was fairly hurtful [to hear],” Kostopoulos says.
His father urged he change his surname to Konson, which is the English translation of his Greek title, which means “son of Kon”.
He was frightened his son would undergo from racism, simply as he had. However Kostopoulos did not take the recommendation, and he now acknowledges it was a warning of what was to return.
Alcohol fuels offensive jokes
Despite the fact that Kostopoulos is a third-generation Australian on his mom’s aspect, he was rapidly lumped along with one other younger barrister of ethnic background throughout his “studying 12 months” — a barrister’s first 12 months of apply supervised by a senior barrister.
They have been dubbed the “duelling dagoes” — a derogatory racial slur used towards Italian or Greek migrants.
Racist feedback turned commonplace, usually jokingly thrown round at Friday evening drinks or lengthy boozy lunches, together with disparaging references to soccer as “wogball”.
Andrew Kostopoulos together with his father. Supply: Provided
They usually got here from these on the highest ranges of the career.
Kostopoulos recollects that on one event, a Queen’s Counsel (QC) made a joke about migrants marrying off their youngsters, saying they intentionally put their fingers in manufacturing facility machines to get staff’ compensation to pay for the marriage.
He additionally heard a pal’s Asian spouse referred to as “Kosciuszko”, a reference to her being “the meanest slope in Australia”.
“[The barristers would be] drunk, after which they’d begin with girls [and] First Nations individuals,” Kostopoulos says.
Even when it is a joke, it is opposite to the regulation and it is also not making a collegial setting.
Andrew Kostopoulos
‘In the event you elevate it, it’s going to damage your profession’
Kostopoulos factors out that Australia’s Racial Discrimination Act has been in place since 1975, and NSW’s Anti-Discrimination Act since 1977.
As a working-class boy from Petersham, he anticipated the bar to be a spot that upheld the legal guidelines and the anti-racist values underpinning them.
“My expectation was not met,” he says.
As an alternative, he discovered that authorized professionals both ignored or tolerated racism and accepted it when it was expressed as a joke.
Alcohol-fuelled occasions would exacerbate the issue, and Kostopoulos believes it was after one such lunch {that a} former QC — senior barristers now often known as senior counsel — stopped him on the street and demanded: “I wish to know why ‘you individuals’ put on hair in your face.”
When Kostopoulos tried to boost such remarks together with his superiors, they’d usually brush them off as jokes and warn him: “In the event you elevate something like that, it’s going to damage your profession.”
After the incident with the QC, Kostopoulos was suggested by a pal to not make a “music and dance” of it because the perpetrator had mates in giant corporations who may cease briefing him.
“These individuals in the end will choose you, both on the bench … or once you’re in search of recognition or elevation to [another] place — senior counsel [for example].”
Over time, the feedback led Kostopoulos to concentrate on his work extra and withdraw from socialising at work occasions.
“You go into your shell and also you grow to be very quiet.”
Andrew Kostopoulos has been grateful to have the assist of his spouse and daughter all through his lengthy profession. Supply: Provided
He acknowledges there have been moments of “self-racism” when he joined in on the banter and laughed at jokes that have been made.
However as he turned extra senior, he began taking a stand towards inappropriate feedback, together with shifting places of work after a QC on the identical flooring referred to the Australian Legal professionals Phil-Hellenic Affiliation, which Kostopoulos based, as “that wog affiliation”.
He believes attitudes have modified lately, however there has by no means been a reckoning of the previous.
A part of that’s all the way down to a reluctance to name racism out — and the potential repercussions for doing so.
Kostopoulos desires to see the Australian Bar Affiliation observe the instance of these in nations corresponding to South Africa and Papua New Guinea, which have made it an offence to not report barristers for unethical or immoral conduct.
“That is the best way to repair it, [then] there will not even be chatter about this stuff behind closed doorways.”
SBS Information requested the NSW Bar Affiliation if it might think about introducing obligatory reporting of barristers for unethical conduct.
President Dr Ruth Higgins stated the affiliation had developed pointers to help particular person chambers and flooring to handle racial and different types of discrimination. A grievance can be made to the Authorized Companies Commissioner.
“With out commenting on particular person instances, racism amounting to discrimination, harassment, or bullying could also be a breach of the Barristers Guidelines,” she stated.
“If a breach of the Barristers Guidelines happens, this may increasingly lead to a discovering of both unsatisfactory skilled conduct or skilled misconduct.”
Reluctance to make use of the phrase ‘racism’
In a report launched final month, the Australian Human Rights Fee (AHRC) acknowledged the significance of having the ability to name out racism.
It discovered the reluctance of governments to make use of the time period “racism”— as an alternative preferring to advertise “social cohesion” — had weakened anti-racism efforts over the previous decade.
This month, Unbiased MP and Greens senator have been each requested to withdraw feedback in parliament after describing a coverage proposed by Opposition Chief Peter Dutton as racist.
earlier that he did not assume individuals coming from Gaza needs to be coming into Australia in any respect, citing nationwide safety considerations, and referred to as for a brief ban on visas for Palestinians.
Steggall addressed Dutton’s remarks in parliament final Thursday, 15 August, saying he was making an attempt to color regular households as terrorists.
Zali Steggall is standing by her remark that Peter Dutton’s Gaza visa ban is racist. Supply: AAP / Lukas Coch
Dutton interjected, calling her feedback “full garbage”, to which Steggall responded: “We heard you in silence; you possibly can hear me in silence. Cease being racist.”
The Unbiased for Warringah was requested to withdraw the remark after Dutton complained it was “offensive and unparliamentary”.
When Steggall sought clarification about why describing his feedback as racist was “unparliamentary”, she was requested to “help the Home” by withdrawing the comment so debate might proceed.
When requested whether or not she had acquired any additional clarification, Steggall informed SBS Information: “My conversations are ongoing with the Speaker.”
‘Why will not you employ the ‘R’ phrase?’
On Monday, the sample was repeated within the Senate.
Senator Mehreen Faruqi was requested to withdraw two feedback: that Dutton’s proposed entry ban had set a “new low in racism”; and that Dutton and One Nation senator Pauline Hanson had been “spewing racism”.
Faruqi criticised the federal government for not displaying management and calling out Dutton’s behaviour, describing it as “vile, harmful racism”.
“Why will not you employ the ‘R’ phrase?” she requested in parliament.
It’s a disgrace that on this chamber racism shouldn’t be referred to as out, however a crackdown on those that name it out is the go.
Greens senator Mehreen Faruqi
Mehreen Faruqi has questioned why individuals will not use the “R” phrase. Supply: AAP / Lukas Coch
Faruqi was informed by the chief of the Senate that her feedback breached the standing orders, that are guidelines that govern Senate proceedings.
These guidelines embody that senators shouldn’t use “offensive phrases” towards different members and that “imputations of improper motives and all private reflections” are thought-about “extremely disorderly”.
When requested why politicians could not name out a coverage as racist, a spokeswoman for the President of the Senate, Sue Strains, stated she wouldn’t be offering additional remark.
The AHRC’s Race and Discrimination Commissioner Giridharan Sivaraman informed SBS Information that MPs ought to be capable to speak frankly about racism, significantly if a coverage is working in a racist means.
“We have to have a dialogue about that as a result of no person, I might assume, desires racist insurance policies,” he says.
“In case you have a coverage that claims individuals can’t come from one nation — no matter the explanations — that arguably is in contravention of the [Race Discrimination Act].
“However if you happen to’re not even allowed to make use of the phrase racism, then how are you going to name it out?”
Australian Race Discrimination Commissioner Giridharan Sivaraman says individuals ought to be capable to speak frankly about racism. Supply: AAP / LUKAS COCH
Sivaraman says backlash for calling out racism is a persistent drawback in Australia.
Racism is about energy: If you name out racism, you are difficult the facility that’s behind it, and highly effective forces will usually suppress those that try to problem their energy.
Giridharan Sivaraman, Australian Human Rights Fee
“It makes it actually troublesome to speak about racism since you get attacked, you get shut down.”
Want for racial literacy
The censuring of Steggall and Faruqi has raised questions on the best way to deliver up racism within the office.
Throughout her parliamentary handle, Faruqi requested Labor senator Penny Wong if the federal government would mandate anti-racism coaching, however Wong defended the federal government’s concentrate on social cohesion.
“I imagine in an Australia the place individuals needs to be introduced collectively; that’s what we are going to all the time work in direction of,” Wong informed the Senate.
The federal government this week launched . Suggestions from a 2022 joint choose committee additionally backed anti-racism coaching for MPs.
When requested if this might be launched, a spokeswoman for Particular Minister of State Don Farrell informed SBS Information the federal government is in search of to enhance the tradition of parliament.
“This has included strengthening the parliamentary office assist service – to ship each HR assist and coaching – in addition to introducing laws for a brand new impartial parliamentary requirements fee,” she stated.
“The onus is on each parliamentarian to keep up the best requirements, as is anticipated by the Australian individuals.”
Authorities spokesperson
SBS Information additionally requested the Opposition Chief whether or not he would assist the introduction of anti-racism coaching however didn’t hear again earlier than deadline.
The AHRC says improved racial literacy is required so individuals perceive how race operates.
“Individuals mechanically have a set of assumptions, or beliefs and even prejudices,” says Sivaraman.
The fee has beneficial anti-racism training in colleges to stamp out racist attitudes early, making certain perpetrators perceive the behaviour is unacceptable and mitigating lifelong disadvantages for victims.
It has additionally referred to as for a nationwide anti-racism council to be established to work straight with authorities, enterprise and different stakeholders to combine anti-racism initiatives in federal insurance policies and nationwide applications.
It represents the sort of accountability that Kostopoulos, and different Australians of various backgrounds, wish to see extra of.
He says the impacts of racism are lifelong.
“On the time, it was horrible and hurtful for an evening or every week … and then you definately grow to be accustomed to it, accustomed to the ache,” he says.
“Even right this moment, it causes me issues that [my dad wanted me to change my name] as a result of he was proper … I might have been left alone.
“I do not need this to occur once more to harm different individuals.”
