On this “Face the Nation” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Rep. Mike Turner, Republican of Ohio
- Enterprise government Frank McCourt
- Mouaz Moustafa, government director for the Syrian Emergency Job Power, and Andrew Boyd, former director of the CIA’s Heart for Cyber Intelligence
- Reps. Mike Kelly, Republican of Pennsylvania, and Jason Crow, Democrat of Colorado
Click on right here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I am Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: There may be breaking information in a single day, as Syrian rebels overthrow dictator Bashar al-Assad’s regime. What are the implications for the Center East and American safety?
Syrian rebels swept into the capital metropolis of Damascus right now with breakneck pace, lastly toppling the brutal al-Assad regime after 13 years of civil battle. It is a battle that former and soon-to-be-President once more Donald Trump is conversant in. He desires bomb Assad’s army to punish him for utilizing chemical weapons after which ordered U.S. troops out of Syria six years in the past.
Trump spent Saturday reconnecting with U.S. allies in Paris.
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DONALD TRUMP (Former President of america (R) and Present U.S. President-Elect): It actually looks as if the world goes a little bit loopy proper now.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: We may have the newest from the area and we are going to discuss to the chairman of the Home Intelligence Committee, Ohio Republican Mike Turner.
Then: Following the congressional process power investigation into safety failures resulting in the assassination makes an attempt of Donald Trump earlier this yr…
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REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY (R-Pennsylvania): At each step of the best way, they failed.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: … prime investigators Pennsylvania Republican Mike Kelly and Colorado Democrat Jason Crow will give us their findings on repair the Secret Service.
Lastly: With the way forward for controversial social media large TikTok doubtful, we are going to hear from a possible purchaser.
It is all simply forward on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
For the primary time in 54 years, the al-Assad household is not ruling Syria.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: Rebels who’d been preventing authorities forces for 13 years swept via Syria in two weeks, capturing Damascus, taking the Syrian folks and the world abruptly.
Dictator Bashar al-Assad seems to have fled the nation. And we’re reminded this morning of the horrors from his reign of terror. His brutal suppression of anti-regime protests in 2011 sparked the world’s largest refugee disaster. Since then, the mass atrocities turned too quite a few to element, the dying toll not possible to tally, together with because of the regime’s use of chemical weapons in opposition to civilians.
Assad dared to check whether or not America and the world would cease him, one thing then-President Obama selected to not do militarily, even after he crossed that so-called purple line.
Here is our Bob Schieffer’s report on Assad’s chemical weapon assault from 2013.
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BOB SCHIEFFER: The dying toll in what seems to be a poison fuel assault within the Syrian civil battle continues to rise. By some estimates, as many as 1,800 folks could have been killed. Rebels blame the Syrian authorities, which continues to disclaim any accountability.
Whoever is accountable, maybe nothing can higher assist us perceive the horror of Syria than this video of a mom telling her small little one goodbye, virtually as if she is hugging her good evening and tucking her into mattress.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: President-elect Donald Trump met Saturday with French President Emmanuel Macron, in addition to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who’s lobbying for extra support from the U.S. and NATO allies in his nation’s battle with Russia.
In a put up on his TRUTH Social Website early this morning, Mr. Trump blamed Assad’s defeat on the entanglements of his allies, saying Russia misplaced all curiosity in Syria due to Ukraine, and, together with Iran, Russia is in a – quote – “weakened state” proper now.
Trump referred to as for a right away cease-fire in Ukraine, saying that Zelenskyy and Ukraine needed to make a deal to cease the insanity.
We start our protection right now with our Imtiaz Tyab reporting from the Turkish-Syrian border.
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IMTIAZ TYAB (voice-over): Scenes like this might have been unthinkable only one week in the past, Syrian rebels within the coronary heart of Damascus celebrating the autumn of the regime, with the whereabouts of President Bashar al-Assad unknown, as folks wept for pleasure within the streets…
(MAN SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
IMTIAZ TYAB: … shouting “Freedom.”
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IMTIAZ TYAB: Some rebels appeared on state TV to announce Assad’s removing. His beautiful defeat was by the hands of an alliance of armed teams who launched a lightning-fast offensive seemingly out of nowhere, and who confronted little resistance from the Syrian military.
The insurgent forces say they’ve now – quote – “absolutely liberated” a lot of main cities. They usually have additionally emptied prisons full of those that dared to face up in opposition to Assad’s rule in the course of the nation’s nearly-14-year civil battle, a battle that, up till now, had appeared frozen, even forgotten.
However because the statues and monuments to the Assad dynasty proceed to be pulled to the bottom, the household’s blood-soaked half-century of authoritarian rule handed from father to son is now over. Ten years in the past, on the top of the civil battle, which was born out of the Arab Spring uprisings…
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IMTIAZ TYAB: … Assad was then simply barely clinging to energy. However Russia and Iran, together with Lebanon’s highly effective Iranian-backed Hezbollah militia, got here to his rescue and tipped the battle firmly in his favor via a punishing marketing campaign of well-documented battle crimes, together with indiscriminate airstrikes and chemical weapons assaults, a brutality in opposition to his personal those that’s onerous to fathom.
However Russia is now preoccupied with its battle in Ukraine. Hezbollah’s management has been decapitated after a yr of bitter preventing with Israel. And Iran together with its different proxies have additionally been degraded by Israeli strikes.
Assad’s 24-year rule appears to be like unlikely to be rescued or resurrected, ushering a brand new, however deeply unsure period for Syria.
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IMTIAZ TYAB: And a key chief of Syria’s armed opposition, Abu Mohammad al-Golani, who belongs to a bunch often called Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham, which was aligned with al Qaeda, has forbid anybody to go close to the buildings housing Syria’s state establishments, signaling the rebels wish to help a peaceable transition of energy.
However the energy vacuum left by Bashar al-Assad is gigantic, Margaret. And the worry is, these teams might quickly activate one another and start a brand new, even perhaps darker chapter on this already ugly civil battle.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is Imtiaz Tyab reporting from the Turkish-Syrian border.
And we’re joined now by the chairman of the Home Intelligence Committee, Ohio Congressman Mike Turner.
Only a beautiful flip of occasions inside such a brief time period. The U.S. does not have a diplomatic presence inside Syria. Our visibility is a little bit restricted right here. What’s it that you simply assume Individuals must learn about this flip of occasions?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER (R-Ohio): Properly, Margaret, that was a wonderful report, since you actually laid the groundwork of this has been an extremely brutal civil battle with a whole lot of hundreds of individuals dying, together with the usage of chemical weapons, and, after all, reminding those that the Obama administration had mentioned this might be a purple line, that we’d use army power to cease the usage of chemical weapons, then failing to take action.
This can be a – an Islamic militia that has risen up and has continued and now’s efficiently toppling the Assad regime. As your report indicated, it is al Qaeda in its origins, but it surely opposes ISIS. It’s Turkish-backed.
This can be a blow to Iran, a blow to Russia. We’re seeing what is probably going a disintegration in – in Syria. The massive questions can be, what does this imply for the U.S.? What does it imply for Iran, Russia, the neighbors of Israel and Jordan, that are robust allies of america?
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you talked about there and we confirmed the image of Abu Mohammad al-Golani. He’s the chief of Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham, folks name HTS. You are going to hear so much about that within the coming days and weeks, the insurgent group that seems to be taking management.
However they’re working additionally with the prime minister. America authorities has a ten million bounty on the top of Jolani. Do you assume america nonetheless ought to hold that? Ought to Individuals be involved that this may imply one thing by way of influence for terror threats to america?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Properly, this can be a terrorist group and group, however this isn’t going to be only a passing of energy and authority. It may very well be. We’ll need to, clearly, watch that.
, one of many issues that we do see right here, although, is, this can be a diplomatic failure with respect to america and Turkey. , the U.S. has troops in Syria. That is on the border of Turkey. Turkey is a NATO ally. America is working with the Kurds. This actually might have been a possibility for america to work to attempt to resolve the difficulty between the Kurds, Turkey and america and dealing with Turkish pursuits in Syria.
Hopefully, this may very well be a possibility the place there may very well be a diplomatic help there that hopefully might have – , assist on this transition in Syria.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There are 900 U.S. troops in Syria within the South.
Donald Trump in 2019 pulled U.S. troops out of Northern Syria, abandoning our allies there. Do you consider he’ll stand by the 900 U.S. troops that stay there, or ought to he think about pulling them out when he takes workplace?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Properly, I believe, , one of many issues that Donald Trump will clarify is, is that any risk to U.S. troops can be unbelievably responded to.
So, everybody ought to perceive, completely, that america troops are to be safe. The second factor is, is, he does completely help the Kurds and that he’ll search for a diplomatic resolution. I believe there can be an evaluation as as to if or not these troops ought to stay.
However it’s – , I believe, right here, there is a chance for the events, particularly now that Iran and Russia’s roles are going to be diminished – diminished. They’ve been brutal of their help with Assad, the a whole lot of hundreds of individuals, together with use of chemical weapons, which were killed have been below the Russian affect there.
Russia nonetheless has two bases, a naval and air power base there, which can be going to be, , each in danger for Russia, but additionally a danger to the inhabitants of Syria, as a result of they might – they’ve been used earlier than to assault the Syrian inhabitants.
We’ll need to see what Russia does there. However that is going to be an space that is going to be extremely unstable and in transition.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And no thought the place Bashar al-Assad may need fled to?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: No, not right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I wish to ask you, since we’re speaking concerning the incoming administration.
Donald Trump has chosen Tulsi Gabbard, the previous congresswoman, a former Democrat, now Republican, to be the director of nationwide intelligence, overseeing 18 intelligence businesses.
She not solely went and met with Assad. She publicly doubted high-confidence assessments by U.S. intelligence that he did what we confirmed you footage of him doing, utilizing chemical weapons there.
Do you belief that she might really characterize the intelligence group, lead it and be trusted to temporary the commander in chief?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Properly, I clearly differ in an incredible deal in a lot of areas with each her judgment and – and her background and expertise.
However what I do belief is the…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are smiling once you’re saying this.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: … is the Senate – is the Senate’s course of.
And I believe the – the senators are going to place her via a course of. She has been nominated. She’s going to undergo the method, and I believe there can be important debate and analysis. I believe…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You do not assume she’ll be confirmed?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: … that Donald Trump has put collectively in his final time period, and I believe he’ll on this time period, an incredible nationwide safety workforce.
I believe CIA Director Ratcliffe, I believe Mike Waltz as nationwide safety director…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: … are each nice examples of people who find themselves going to be foundational.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: And I believe you are going to see an incredible nationwide safety workforce.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, this can be a group that you simply even have oversight of. So you could not vote within the Senate, but it surely seems like she does not have your confidence.
What about Pete Hegseth to run the Pentagon at a time of world instability?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Sure, I believe – I believe the chairman of the Armed Companies within the Senate has made an incredible assertion. He mentioned, we actually help the method, and he has his help going via the method, and we’ll need to see how that goes via.
One factor that’s completely clear is that the Pentagon wants reform. We’re not protecting tempo with what Russia and China are doing in superior weapon methods.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: On the similar time, we’re seeing the weapon methods of superior expertise which can be being utilized on the battlefield of Ukraine, and our acquisition methods and our accounting methods, our spending methods will not be working on the Pentagon.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That requires expertise.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: We want reform. We want reform. Somebody has to have the ability to lead that, and that is going to be the talk within the Senate.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I like after I ask congresspeople, and so they simply hold reminding me that they do not sit within the Senate and do not wish to remark. I sense some – some uncertainty there in your half, however I do not wish to put phrases in your mouth.
I wish to ask you, although, about what’s ticking down in Congress proper now. And that’s one thing – there is a scramble on the finish of this yr to get a bunch of labor finished.
Your Democratic colleague within the Senate Mark Warner, mentioned: “It’s an pressing precedence to handle cybersecurity gaps in these remaining weeks.”
Is it a precedence so that you can do one thing due to this huge breach by China of U.S. telecom?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: , one factor that is – that is very disappointing and we have seen from this administration, this malaise of – or this stasis of the place they’re unable to maneuver because of the president unable to decide.
Right here, we’ve this huge breach, this hack that has occurred from China, however we’re listening to nothing from the president himself, no motion from this administration as to what their – what penalties there can be.
This isn’t – does not want only a technological repair. This wants additionally a diplomatic repair, a nation-to-nation penalties to China. , within the Obama administration…
MARGARET BRENNAN: What would penalties seem like?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Within the Obama administration, China hacked the personnel administration system of the U.S. authorities, and there have been no penalties. And now we’re seeing China hack your complete system of the nation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: There must be penalties. They are often financial. They are often in a lot of methods.
However, proper now, we’ve zero. We now have nothing popping out of the administration. What want – we have to be speaking about shouldn’t be, technologically, how can we repair this…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: … however how can we deal with – which is what Donald Trump is doing, is coming in and saying, China is our most – gravest risk. How can we deal with the truth that China is aggressively attacking america? They usually’re doing that in our telecom.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Query for the incoming administration to choose that up.
Thanks, Chair Turner.
Face the Nation can be again in a minute. Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: For some evaluation on the occasions unfolding within the Center East, we’re joined now by Andrew Boyd, a CBS Information contributor who beforehand held management positions on the CIA and as soon as served in Damascus as a International Service officer, and Mouaz Moustafa, the manager director of the Syrian Emergency Job Power.
Welcome again to Face the Nation.
Mouaz, I wish to begin with you.
You’ve got been concerned with the Syrian opposition for nicely over a decade. Assist us perceive what it means to see the regime fall.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA (Govt Director, Syrian Emergency Job Power): It is an indescribable feeling of happiness that this regime, this dictator who has made the worst crimes of the twenty first century, alongside Russia and Iran and ISIS, all of those horrible folks have been defeated by a coalition of insurgent forces that didn’t want any help from any exterior nation, not Turkey, not Qatar, not anybody.
This time round, Syria was liberated by its folks for its folks. And it is actually inspiring. And it is not simply good reverberations for Syria, for the Center East and Europe as nicely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, there’s a variety of uncertainty as to what this all means.
Andy, you may have watched this area very intently for a while. At this hour, not one of the officers that I’ve spoken with in regional governments, within the U.S. authorities appear to know the place Bashar al-Assad even went. Does it matter the place he went?
ANDREW BOYD: Mouaz could differ on this one. I do not assume it does now that the federal government has fallen.
I do assume what unfolds over the following couple of weeks and, if the opposition really treats all the factions in Syria with dignity and respect and ensures their security, we may have extra understanding, as a result of there’s a variety of atrocities that have been carried out by the Assad regime.
These persons are in all probability nonetheless in Syria. And so we are going to see how that goes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: A good level. The individuals who labored inside the regime, they’re nonetheless there?
ANDREW BOYD: The Syrian army intelligence, the army – the opposite intelligence companies, Syrian Basic Intelligence Directorate, I imply, have a variety of blood on their palms. So…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
And I do know that you simply personally, Mouaz, have been concerned in smuggling out documented proof of a number of the torture, of the mass atrocities, the systematic, institutionalized violence that occurred from a few of these prisons. You introduced it to Congress. You made it public.
What do you assume we are able to be taught now as these billing – buildings are being seized by rebels?
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: Properly, the very first thing that we’re working actually onerous, and I can inform you all of the insurgent factions are working actually onerous to do, is locate Austin Tice and hopefully deliver him residence, God prepared, now again to this household.
MARGARET BRENNAN: An American journalist who as soon as labored at CBS Information for a while, a Marine veteran.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: And he is a hero.
He went to cowl the plight of the Syrian folks from what Assad, Iran and Russia have been doing to them. And, God prepared, we deliver him residence alive. However we have to discover him and produce him to his mother, it doesn’t matter what. And the Syrians owe him a debt endlessly.
And, additionally, different Individuals which can be undeclared, and liberating Syrians from prisons is one thing that is actually essential. However the assortment of that intelligence, in addition to the Hezbollah, Iranian, Russian, Assad regime, any officers which were arrested by the Syrian folks, once more, with none help of the worldwide group or regional international locations, who really labored to attempt to save Assad, that’s priceless.
That is priceless to america. That is why we have to interact with this new rising authorities that, God prepared, is the trail to democracy. The one Arab nation on the earth…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: … with the hope of being a democracy is Syria. That is unimaginable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is an enormous promise to make.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: It is not a promise. It is hope that is practical.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Or hope. Hope.
Andy, however the – proper now, the individual we’re seeing emerge, we confirmed him in Umayyad Mosque…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: … vastly symbolic place to return and make a speech in Damascus, is that this chief of a terrorist group designated, by america as a terrorist…
ANDREW BOYD: Appropriate. Appropriate.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … $10 million bounty on his head.
ANDREW BOYD: Appropriate.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that signify to you?
ANDREW BOYD: Properly, as Congressman Turner mentioned, it is not going to be a straightforward course of to undesignate Abu Mohammad al-Jolani.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You – which implies the U.S. cannot discuss to him.
ANDREW BOYD: The U.S. cannot discuss to him.
I imply, we are able to accommodate some kind of flexibility there, however he is not going to immediately come off the designation listing. So, I imply, we are going to see. I imply, you may have mentioned that – that he’ll respect all of the factions, the Druze, the Christian, even the Shia and Alawi, who’re answerable for the deaths of a whole lot of hundreds of Syrians.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: I am talking by his actions, not by his phrases.
ANDREW BOYD: Proper.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: Properly, Aleppo, et cetera – you might discuss to the bishop of Aleppo, however, sure, completely.
ANDREW BOYD: However – however time will inform. I imply, I am a born skeptic, as a variety of my colleagues on the company are. We’ll see.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Go forward, Mouaz.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Inform us who’s on this. You talked about it as a coalition, not simply HTS. Who’re these individuals who now appear to be in command of Syria?
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: Positive.
Initially, for the reason that entire world is boiling down the entire Syrian revolution to 1 faction of a coalition, or, as an example, even one individual inside a faction of that coalition, let’s focus on that.
Why was HTS placed on the terrorist listing? It was placed on a terrorist listing over an older model referred to as Jabhat al-Nusra that had a free affiliation with al Qaeda…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: … not a transnational or regional terrorist factor, however an inter-Islamist no matter.
I do not agree with any…
ANDREW BOYD: However, Mouaz, I believe Margaret’s speaking additionally as an individual, Abu Mohammad al-Jolani. I imply, he was in al Qaeda in Iraq. He labored for Abu Musab al Zarqawi. He spent a number of years in Bucca jail as a detainee.
So we’re additionally – we’re speaking HTS, Jabhat al-Nusra, but additionally him as an individual. He is designated…
(CROSSTALK)
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: Positive, let’s speak about him as an individual.
However what’s hilarious about that is, proper now, as thousands and thousands of Syrians come again from Europe and are prepared to return again residence, as folks haven’t been displaced and there was zero experiences of violations – and I used to be on the cellphone with the bishop of Aleppo.
The rationale I used to be on the cellphone is that President Trump and other people in President Trump’s camp have been involved concerning the Christians in Syria. In fact, there’s a lot deal with – any time there’s one thing, terrorist, terrorist.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: And what ended up occurring is, the bishop of Aleppo mentioned, sir, first, it is the coalition of teams, together with HTS.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: And we’ve had electrical energy extra now than we’ve below the regime, and our solely worry is Russian airstrikes.
So I am glad that President Trump nonetheless – nonetheless…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: … instructed Russia what it ought to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: Get out of Syria. And it has finished so.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, we can be watching to see whether or not that continues to be the case and what transpires and what it means…
(CROSSTALK)
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: One – one final thing, Margaret. It is actually essential.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’ve to go. I am so sorry.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: Al Qaeda in Syria is HoR.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA: It is the affiliate.
And HTS has defeated it and defeated ISIS. The previous designation is form of irrelevant.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure. Properly, we can be watching this creating story.
And we can be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Tonight on 60 Minutes, a take a look at how the crypto trade flexed its political muscle by donating monumental sums of cash to get pro- crypto candidates elected.
(Start VT)
BRAD GARLINGHOUSE (CEO, Ripple): Crypto for all of us.
MARGARET BRENNAN (voice-over): Brad Garlinghouse is the CEO of an organization referred to as Ripple, whose cryptocurrency, XRP, turned the third largest on the earth this previous week.
Ripple and two different firms contributed $144 million to tremendous PACs that supported pro-crypto Republicans and Democrats.
BRAD GARLINGHOUSE: Do I believe we had an influence to elect a Democratic senator in Michigan, Elissa Slotkin? Sure, completely. Do I believe we had an influence in Arizona, a Democratic senator in Arizona, Gallego? Completely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: General, crypto firms contributed one-third of all direct company contributions to tremendous PACs. Of the 29 Republicans and 33 Democrats the trade backed in congressional races, 85 % received.
BRAD GARLINGHOUSE: It is unimaginable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So that you see this election as a significant victory?
BRAD GARLINGHOUSE: For certain.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However some folks will take a look at that and say, you teamed up and purchased an election.
BRAD GARLINGHOUSE: Here is the factor. Voters voted. We educated voters, as many industries do, about candidates.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However you helped supercharge the candidates with the cash within the coffers, proper…
BRAD GARLINGHOUSE: We completely did.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … on no matter it’s they needed to speak about.
BRAD GARLINGHOUSE: That is completely proper.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ll be able to watch my full report tonight on 60 Minutes.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We can be proper again with much more Face the Nation, together with our dialog with the bipartisan chairs of a congressional process power investigating what went incorrect with legislation enforcement within the Butler, Pennsylvania, assassination try of former President Trump.
Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to Face the Nation.
On Friday, we sat down with Republican Mike Kelly and Democrat Jason Crow, the leaders of the bipartisan congressional process power investigating the assassination makes an attempt on former President Trump.
We needed to know what they realized concerning the challenges going through the Secret Service relating to protecting protectees protected.
(Start VT)
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW (D-Colorado): The world that I particularly checked out was the tradition of the group, as a result of I used to be struck by the tales and the recount of the precise actions of officers and brokers on the bottom that day.
And there have been some heroic ones, however there have been additionally a variety of examples of those that knew that one thing was incorrect and so they did not say something.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY (R-Pennsylvania): Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why did not anybody say something? Have been they unaware of vulnerabilities, or is there a tradition of silence, the place folks talking up get smacked down for doing so?
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: That is – that’s my concern, is that there is a tradition of silence and that particular person officers and brokers will not be empowered to say one thing is incorrect.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman Kelly, on that time, I imply, a few of this seems like administration 101, that this isn’t particular to the Secret Service. Plenty of organizations have issues like what you simply highlighted there.
Performing Director Rowe testified Thursday he thinks the Secret Service must determine leaders earlier on and promote them based mostly on capacity, not simply hours logged on the clock.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: However is not that true of every little thing in life?
If you take a look at this, when folks speak about, we want higher management than that, I used to be on these grounds the evening earlier than. They weren’t arrange at that time. They have been going to work via the evening to get it prepared. And then you definately discover out afterwards that there was no coordination, there was no workforce assembly, there was no, nicely, that is going to be your accountability to know the place you are alleged to be and what time you are alleged to be there.
You deliver native legislation enforcement in, however you do not – you do not embrace them within the planning. Or, once you do the – the interviews afterwards, nicely, I assumed he was going to do it. No, we thought someone else was going to do it.
If you knew there was a suspicious individual on the grounds – and this can be a frequent – going backwards and forwards now. That is the place they mentioned they weren’t speaking with one another. You’ll be able to’t inform me that you simply did not know till 10 minutes after 6:00 that you simply could not talk. At 11 minutes after 6:00, the shooter took motion.
They knew an hour-and-a-half forward of time. Out of all of the hundreds of the folks strolling round on that ter – on that property, there was a suspicious individual, and so they saved dropping sight of him.
I might have mentioned – and I’ve no background in legislation enforcement – hold the president again till we clear the world. That is the half that does not make sense.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: As a result of they failed from the very first thing, from the selecting of the positioning, making ready the positioning, to the coordination of the positioning, to the flexibility to speak.
At each step of the best way, they failed. And the query is, why did not you simply say, maintain up, simply maintain up, do not let him come out?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, when the performing director says on Thursday of this week, we have to choose higher leaders, that will recommend that the company right now doesn’t essentially have the leaders it wants to repair…
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: Oh.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … all of the stuff you simply laid out.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: Sure.
And I believe, by saying what he mentioned, that is what he meant. They do not have the management they want. After they morphed them into Homeland Safety again in 2001, 2 – at any time when it was, they took away their identification and their exclusivity. If you’re one of the best of one of the best, once you’re the elite of the elites…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: … when you lose that, then swiftly you simply change into a part of a workforce.
There was an enormous mistake again when Homeland got here into existence. That is not a criticism, as a result of they did what they needed to do again then. However I am telling you, on July 13, there was an absence of professionalism, there was an absence of concern, there was an absence of coordination.
And the flexibility to speak is the one factor I’ll by no means perceive. You knew you could not discuss to one another. Why did you go ahead?
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: I wish to be actually clear that there are many extraordinary brokers and officers within the Secret Service, proper?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: And after we speak about a failure of mission, , in Butler or anyplace else, that does not imply that, , 80, 90 % of the – of the Secret Service brokers aren’t phenomenal and devoted professionals.
However there’s a systematic drawback right here. The construction, the personnel, the staffing of the Secret Service, hasn’t modified in years, concurrently we are actually asking them to do issues that they did not do a decade in the past.
And they’re – they’re fulfilling an operational tempo that requires them to be deployed…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: … three weeks out of a month, continuously doing occasions, skipping firearms coaching, skipping management improvement coaching. We’re not creating their expertise and their coaching. And I believe you see the outcomes of that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you made three dozen suggestions on this report on what to vary, together with to cut back the variety of protectees.
Proper now, Secret Service protects not solely presidential management, their quick households, their spouses, their kids, candidates, and anybody actually the president designates. Ought to all of that proceed?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: We have elevated the scale of protectees which can be on the market, together with overseas property that come right here and those that deliver – deliver their households and issues. In order that’s gotten so large.
However, when you take a look at Homeland, I believe – I believe, once you take a look at Secret Service, it is about 3 % of their total spend. The most important spend is on FEMA. And, now, we do not wish to change something like that.
However you may’t have an unique with out funding them to the extent that they have to be funded, not solely in manpower and in coaching, however within the property that they need to have obtainable to them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: You at all times need to ask your self, what are your missions and what’s the factor that solely you are able to do? Like, what’s that no- fail mission?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: On this case, with the Secret Service, that no- fail mission is to guard our highest-level candidates and our highest- stage elected officers, interval.
All the opposite issues, investigation of monetary crimes, coaching and help, these are all secondary missions. So, when you’re not really adequately performing any of these missions to plain, and when you’ve got reached a breaking level, then it is time to assess, what are these missions that must fall off and to be transitioned elsewhere?
That is my view.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You, Congressman Crow, appeared very pissed off, based mostly on the report and listening to that you’ve got…
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Do I appear pissed off?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: No, no, you are very…
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, with the truth that you could not discover out extra concerning the shooter, each in Butler and in – the potential shooter in Mar-a- Lago.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Sure.
That is really a extremely essential ingredient to the story. And other people have rightful questions on it. I’ve questions on it. And that’s, why did the shooter do that?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: What drove him to do it? Was he a lone wolf shooter? Did he have associates or associates? What was his motivation? How was he radicalized?
We endeavored to get solutions to these questions. We submitted quite a few requests to the Division of Justice and FBI. Their response is, that is an ongoing legal investigation, and we will not give that data to Congress.
That, for my part, is an unacceptable place. And here is why.
MARGARET BRENNAN: For each Butler and Mar-a-Lago, that was the reply?
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Appropriate. That is proper.
And here is why that is unacceptable. I sit on the Intelligence Committee. I’ve sat on the Armed Companies Committee. And Congress on a regular basis will get entry to our nation’s most delicate secrets and techniques, ongoing operations, intelligence operations, army operations.
So you may’t inform me that there is not a option to put us right into a safe facility and get us details about an ongoing legal investigation, after I frequently am receiving briefs on what our – our spies and our army particular operators are doing frequently all over the world.
So, none of this stands to cause. And we’ve devoted ourselves to proceed to get these solutions. And if the FBI and DOJ thinks that they will wait us out and stonewall us, they’re incorrect.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You assume they’re deliberately withholding data?
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: I do not know what their intention is. I imply, I am not a thoughts reader. However, , I’ve been round Congress lengthy sufficient to know what – what…
(CROSSTALK)
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: If you get stonewalled. Sure. Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: If you get stonewalled.
I imply, pay attention, that is – this isn’t unusual…
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: No.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: … once you’re coping with businesses and departments. It is a fairly common technique. And it is one thing that, , we encounter on a regular basis in our oversight duties.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, we do not know, or inform me if maybe reply to this.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Sure, we’re – we’re in…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Was there a overseas nexus? Do we all know, sure or no?
(CROSSTALK)
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Individuals are deluged with misinformation and disinformation that is coming from quite a lot of sources.
And conspiracy theories typically take root when there is a lack of know-how or there’s conflicting data. So our job is to attempt to get data on the market, to be clear, to be accessible, to inform the true story.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: And that is why that is essential. This ingredient of that story is essential, as a result of there’s a variety of conspiracies round…
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: Completely.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: … these shootings, proper? And we take that critically.
And we wish to – we wish to, , rebuff these. However, , on this case – and I sit on a variety of different committees with entry to data – I’ve seen no proof {that a} state actor, an adversary was answerable for both of those tried assassination makes an attempt. I’ve seen no proof.
However, , once you’re able the place, , the federal government says, nicely, it is not this, however we can’t inform you what it’s, proper, and – and we will not inform you – we will not inform you definitively, nicely, , folks reply and have questions on that.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: And I perceive that mentality. So, regardless that we do not have proof of 1 factor, folks nonetheless wish to know what else it’s. And I nonetheless wish to know what else it’s.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did he act alone? Do we all know that?
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: We do not know that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Or Congress does not know that.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Sure.
And, , it is one factor to say – and I’ll be actually clear about this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: As a result of that is very, very delicate territory…
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: As a result of we wish to make certain we’re not…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: … getting folks spun up unnecessarily.
There is no such thing as a proof of – from different sources, , inner authorities sources, from our investigation, that others have been concerned, that he acted with others, and {that a} overseas state or adversary was concerned on this.
However that also raises the query of, why did he do that?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Was simply – was he only a disturbed younger man who determined to take motion alone? In all probability. I imply, that is in all probability the reply.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: That is what it appears to be like like now, sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Proper?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: That is what it appears to be like like. However we have to know, proper? And let’s get the data on the market that the federal government has to be sure that we are able to settle this. And that is – that is our obligation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is the company right now in a position to do its job, in the event that they weren’t in a position to do it in July?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: We have been tasked with looking for out what occurred that day, why it occurred that day, and to – and to one of the best of our capacity be sure that the Secret Service, that does not occur once more to them.
We won’t assure that this stuff will not occur.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: As a result of it is a loopy world proper now. However there was an excessive amount of forward of time that we did know that we did not share.
I might by no means let my little one play close to a street. And once you do, you place folks in jeopardy of that and there is a hazard there. Do not let it occur.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is there something that you simply really feel essential to boost that we did not speak about?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: We by no means recognized as Republicans and Democrats. We – we outlined as a process power to seek out out what occurred that day.
And the entire – the entire aim from day one is to revive the religion and belief and confidence that the American folks should have on this company. At this level, it is in all probability on the lowest ebb it is ever been.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: And the opposite factor is, I believe we notice that threats are three hundred and sixty five days a yr, 24 hours a day. You’ll be able to’t take a time off. You’ll be able to’t take a play off. You have to be prepared each single second for something that might presumably occur.
Is {that a} tough process? Sure. Is it virtually not possible? Sure, there’s a variety of unhealthy actors on the market. However what’s not not possible? Our dedication to the truth that we’ll do one of the best we are able to do each single day to make sure that the American folks have the religion and belief and confidence they should have in us.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: This can be a powerful place to work.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: Oh.
(LAUGHTER)
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: And there are – frankly, there are some folks right here that do not belong right here, that I believe are simply right here to get consideration, to get, , clicks on social media, that are not right here to legislate.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: However this has been among the best experiences of my time in Congress. And I could not have requested for a greater accomplice than Mike Kelly.
, and he is a really conservative Republican, and I am a Democrat. We’re each pleased with that.
(LAUGHTER)
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: We’re pleased with our politics. And…
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: We’re.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: And we characterize our districts, proper?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: Sure. Sure. We do. We do.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: That is really – that is really the job, proper?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: We characterize the tradition and the politics and the hopes and desires of our districts. And that is what’s so – so lovely about this place when it really works nicely.
However this course of – and I believe that is actually essential for Individuals to know – this course of was critical. It was bipartisan. It was – it was deep. And we did the job that we have been requested to do.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ll be able to watch our full interview on our Website and our YouTube web page.
We can be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: A panel of federal judges in D.C. final week upheld a brand new legislation that might successfully ban the favored social media app TikTok by mid- January if its Chinese language homeowners don’t promote it to a brand new purchaser.
Frank McCourt, the manager chairman of McCourt World and founding father of Undertaking Liberty, is likely one of the potential consumers, and he joins us now.
Good to see you right here.
FRANK MCCOURT (Govt Chairman, McCourt World): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, TikTok says, nicely, they could go to the Supreme Court docket on this one. If they do not, their mum or dad firm, ByteDance, has mentioned they are not taken with promoting.
Do you may have any indication that they are going to and that the incoming Trump administration would help somebody such as you shopping for it?
FRANK MCCOURT: Properly, sure, I believe the place we are actually, Margaret, is, there’s three choices.
, one is an attraction. Our legal professionals inform us there’s little or no probability of a profitable attraction by ByteDance, robust bipartisan laws, a 3-0 by the three – , by the appellate courtroom.
So now that leaves us with two, a ban or a sale. We do not wish to see it banned. I might add that President – president-elect Trump has additionally mentioned he does not wish to see it banned. So now let’s discuss concerning the sale.
So we have been working for the final eight months on the idea that the laws could be upheld and that there could be a sale.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
FRANK MCCOURT: So, that is the place we’re proper now. And we’re working very, very onerous to be able to purchase the U.S. portion of TikTok…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
FRANK MCCOURT: … so it is not shut down.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, what’s that value to you? There are estimates it may very well be as excessive as $200 billion in value.
FRANK MCCOURT: 2 hundred billion {dollars} could be extra – extra within the vary of what everything of the platform is value, not simply the U.S. piece.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
FRANK MCCOURT: And let’s be clear. The Chinese language authorities has mentioned they are not promoting the algorithm. They view that as I.P. of the nation.
So, Tik – U.S. TikTok is a bit of ByteDance. If it is offered, it is going to be offered with out an algorithm. So the worth can be far, far lower than 200 – $200 billion. We now have circled over $20 billion to be able, and we’re very critical about elevating no matter capital is required to purchase the platform.
And – and, to be clear…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
FRANK MCCOURT: … we’re seeking to transfer the 170 million customers over to a brand new protocol, the place the people will personal and management their identification and their knowledge. We’re not seeking to replicate the present model.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, let’s speak about that.
As you mentioned, 170 million Individuals use TikTok, particularly younger folks. U.S. legislation prohibits overseas management of mass media, however this social media house is form of a loophole right here. There aren’t a variety of governing guidelines on this house.
Do you assume Congress wants to jot down new guidelines of the function – of the street to ban overseas possession and to place restrictions on even homeowners such as you?
FRANK MCCOURT: I believe we have to improve our rules and our insurance policies. There isn’t any doubt about that.
However, way more importantly, we have to repair the expertise. The Web is damaged, essentially damaged. We heard your visitor earlier Consultant Turner discuss concerning the risk from China on our telecom hack, huge hack, huge risk to Individuals.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They usually’re nonetheless within the telecom system, in accordance with U.S. intelligence.
FRANK MCCOURT: Completely.
And we heard your current visitors, Representatives Kelly and Crow, discuss concerning the deluge of misinformation and disinformation, the truth that it is a very harmful world proper now.
The rationale why the Congress moved so shortly with TikTok to go the laws is as a result of it’s a nationwide safety risk to Individuals.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
FRANK MCCOURT: And the rationale why the judges upheld it’s for that very same cause.
So let’s flip an issue into an answer by profiting from this second, transfer the 170 million customers over to a brand new protocol the place people are revered.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you may have a sign from president-elect Trump that he desires to see an American entity purchase this? As a result of he would even have some affect within the end result.
FRANK MCCOURT: In fact, as president-elect, he’ll have huge affect. However…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Have you ever spoken to him?
FRANK MCCOURT: However – however President – President Trump is a dealmaker. We all know that. I am a dealmaker, OK? I’ve been doing enterprise offers my total – my total life.
Let’s make a deal the place everyone wins, the place China’s in a position to promote the U.S. portion of TikTok, the place Americans are protected, and the place there’s – and 170 million customers proceed to benefit from the platform. So he has mentioned he does not need it banned, which implies a sale.
And the laws and the – the appellate determination require that this platform be – be owned by Individuals. We now have constructed a clear, bottom-up American stack to maneuver this person base over, the place there can be no Chinese language backdoors and no capacity to – to benefit from Americans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You – you are indicating you’ve got constructed out some expertise, you assume, that won’t permit for presidency surveillance?
FRANK MCCOURT: Appropriate.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However are you able to, in case you are – whoever owns that is going to be highly effective, when you get 170 million Individuals on a platform, notably younger folks, to eat the data on this method.
So what ensures do you make? As a result of Fb and Twitter, in addition they harvest details about shoppers. Would you?
FRANK MCCOURT: Sure, nicely, that is precisely what we do not wish to do.
So the rationale why we wish to transfer folks to a brand new stack the place you may’t harvest with out permission, so people will personal and management their identification and their knowledge, permission its use, will even have an Web that respects folks, versus exploits them.
Think about empowering folks. And, to be clear, Margaret, I am not seeking to be the CEO of TikTok. We name it the folks’s bid, as a result of we would like this to empower folks and to cease this nonsense the place we’re exploiting folks by scraping their knowledge and profiting from them, and, within the case of TikTok, really making a nationwide safety risk.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Elon Musk, who owns X, previously often called Twitter, now has raised issues about content material moderation proscribing free speech. Do you share that concern, and what restrictions would you placed on paid political promoting?
FRANK MCCOURT: I discussed earlier that we want higher insurance policies, for certain, however we want higher tech.
Proper now, we’ve a tech stack that is constructed, and these large apps scrape our knowledge and exploit it. Why not flip the ability? Why not really give folks their knowledge again?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
FRANK MCCOURT: Our knowledge is our personhood on this age. Allow us to determine use it. Allow us to every determine what moderation we’re snug with, what censorship we’re snug with, what privateness we’re snug with.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ought to – OK, so the surgeon basic says you want a warning label as a result of that is damaging the psychological well being of younger folks on this nation.
Ought to folks below the age of 16 have entry?
FRANK MCCOURT: Beneath the present tech stack, I agree with the surgeon basic. Beneath a brand new expertise – pay attention, I am a builder. My household has been constructing for 5 generations.
That is an engineering drawback that may be fastened. Let’s take this ban of TikTok…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
FRANK MCCOURT: … this huge nationwide safety drawback, and switch it into an answer for Individuals. Let’s make it a win, a win-win.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
Properly, mid-January, we are going to see what occurs on this case. And we are going to watch your potential bid right here. Thanks for becoming a member of us.
We’ll be again in a second.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The weeklong cease-fire between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon seems to be holding, however the scenario in Gaza stays dire.
Here is our Debora Patta reporting from East Jerusalem.
(Start VT)
DEBORA PATTA (voice-over): An enormous Israeli strike caught on digicam by CBS Information because it ripped via the Al-Mawasi tented camp close to Khan Yunis, a chosen humanitarian protected zone become a blazing inferno.
Confronted with unpredictable hazard, exhausted households on the transfer once more. Israel says it was focusing on two Hamas militants. However over 20 folks died, amongst them 4 kids and a pregnant girl.
(MONA SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
DEBORA PATTA: In Central Gaza, 13-year-old Shadi Faraj (sp?) was enjoying exterior when he was killed.
(MONA SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
DEBORA PATTA: “That is proof of their crimes,” his aunt Mona (sp?) shouted. “They only wish to kill as many Palestinians as potential.”
In Northern Gaza, Israel has ordered everybody to go away. It’s below siege. Whilst Palestinians flee, they’re shot at. Israel has allowed nearly no support into the north for greater than two months. Within the south, that is what it appears to be like like exterior the few remaining bakeries, as folks struggle only for a bit of bread.
Each morning, 11-year-old Zeina Juhab (sp?) braved these crowds, till in the future she didn’t come residence. She had been trampled to dying.
(AHMED SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
DEBORA PATTA: “The world appears to be like at us, and all they see are terrorists,” her father, Ahmed (sp?), instructed us. “We’re not terrorists. We simply wish to survive.”
However nobody, it appears, is listening, as starvation spreads in all places.
(Finish VT)
DEBORA PATTA: Amnesty Worldwide says there isn’t any time to waste and has warned the U.S. to cease sending weapons to Israel due to the chance, Margaret, that these could be used for battle crimes or genocide.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That was our Debora Patta in East Jerusalem.
We can be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is it for us right now. Thanks for watching.
Till subsequent week, for Face the Nation, I am Margaret Brennan.
